I’ve got a new “Press A to Listen” feature article over on gamentrain.com today! Press A to Start is a monthly series providing a quick course in the history, music, and influence of classic games. This month, read up on the history of NES classic Kirby’s Adventure while enjoying the music of Jun Ishikawa (composer for Kirby games) and talented multi-instrumentalist Xoc!
My latest Memoreview is up. You will laugh. You will learn. Take a trip back with me into the annals of arcade history for my review of BurgerTime for the Arcade and NES.
Feature Article on Game N Train – Memoreview: A nostalgic retro review of Top Gear Rally for the Nintendo 64
Also leave a comment on gamentrain.com, on twitter @genoboost, or here to let me know what you think.
I’ve had the idea for this article in my mind for a long time, so I’m really excited to find a home for this article. In my guest feature for 1 More Castle, Reboot This: Primal Rage, I take a humorous look at why I hope game developers are far from done rebooting retro fighting game series.
Give it a read, and be sure to leave a comment over there about what you think and what types of games you would want to see make a return in the next generation of gaming.
After four days, these are the first words I am typing (not really, I had to edit them, but it was true in the rough draft). I tend to write far more often then never, as you might imagine. So why did production come to a stop? Pokemon of course! It’s always the Pokemon (except when it’s SimCity or Rune Factory or Advance Wars or…). It has all been so dark the past few days. I am writing this now, as if I woke up from a drug binge, or am recovering from some debilitating illness. For several days the most important thoughts in my mind sounded something like, “Do I really need another dragon type on my team? Maybe one that could learn a fighting attack. Although if I can bring in a dual type fighting/lightning, then I can switch out my Eelektross for my Gallade and have two fighting types. Are there any fighting/lightning types? Better do some research…”
I remember last playing Pokemon White months ago when it had first been released. I defeated the Elite Four, saved all the Pokemon from Team Plasma, and then some. I didn’t accomplish everything though. A Pokemon Trainer’s work is never done. I moved on to fresher gaming pastures relatively soon after defeating Pokemon White, and was free from it’s spell. At least, until a few days ago.
It all began when I was feeling particularly ill one morning. Too sick to climb out of bed and hop on the computer. Too withered away to even stare at the television. I slowly rolled over, and in the darkness I could see the dim blue power light of my trusty DS by my bedside. I reached out for it, and suddenly the bright glow and rocking bicycle music of Pokemon White lit up the room. I lied in bed and began playing. It took a moment to get a grip on where I was in the Unova region, and what I had yet to accomplish. Suddenly the original time with the game began to flood back in. I was raising a new team. I had eggs to hatch. I had battles to fight. I had to buy some revival herbs. I had to play Pokemon. In an instant I had become entangled in the six hundred and forty-nine tentacles of the latest Pokemon game.
I have tried to ‘catch them all’ on several non consecutive occasions. Each time I placed a Pokemon cartridge into the current portable Nintendo system that is currently on the market, I have been consumed by it. There was the classic red, and many a tale can be told of that, then there was my return to a world long forgotten when I bought Pokemon Diamond. This journey into the land of Unova marks the third time I have devolved into a blathering PokeManiac.
Friends were abandoned, responsibilities shirked, and thoughts of non Pokemon related events dropped to an all time low. Any responsibility that couldn’t be avoided, was done methodically, and in a way to incorporate the most repetitious aspects of Pokemon. Chores like laundry and eating became tests in multitasking. Tests I often failed as my food often went cold and/or uneaten. Although, I’ll mention that my shirts came out as colorful as ever, in case you were worried about the laundry.
My mind easily made the transition back into the daily routine of things. I hit up Amanita on her PC and grabbed the Pokemon I wanted. I stopped by all the daily events, read the animated sign between routes to search for Pokemon, and fumbled my way through a handful of battles. With my reintroduction to the games mechanics now over, it was time to be the very best.
Like being the best at many other things, it all began with some research. I pulled up Bulbapedia by typing the name of a random Pokemon into Google. Soon my browser was bursting at the seams with tabs of innumerable varieties of Pokemon, along with move descriptions, abilities, and a few random maps of Unova. My Pokemon fueled Euphoria left little time for anything else. Days were spent searching for the perfect group of fighters, though I didn’t EV train them, because that is a load of BS. My days were divided between reading, training, battling, hatching, raising, and outfitting a ragtag team of fighters culled over generations of Pokemon games. As epic as that all sounds, it actually comes down to pressing the same sequence of buttons repeatedly for a few hours. There is nothing quite like the thrill of holding the up button for ten seconds, followed by pushing the down button for another ten seconds.
When a game requires a heavy dose of repetition, and then I do what is required, over and over, I forget whether I am actually enjoying the game or not. I am still playing it, sure. I can’t stop playing it. Am I enjoying playing it though? It’s difficult to quantify, to say the least. There are enormous lulls in the action that can be a chore, but at the same time, destroying someone with a team of Pokemon you raised yourself is definitely gratifying. Of course, you do lose sometimes, and that isn’t fun either.
A weeks worth of writing was lost to these pocket monsters. Not to mention hours of playing Driver: San Francisco, and Kirby’s Mass Attack, two articles I should have presented you fine readers with some time ago. Even at work I was pulling up the PokeDroid app on my phone and imagining other great teams I could build after the one I was currently raising. All the while in the back of my head, I was well assured that putting this much effort into the game is a complete waste of time and resources. Despite such notions, I continued to flip open my DS at every opportunity and grind my way to the top. Through the years I have learned that my mind can focus in on one subject or game with an unquenchable obsession. It’s nice when that obsession is the intricacies of medical science, but not so much when it is the variability of stats in imaginary creatures who are born with different natural moods and abilities.
Unlike other addictive games like Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon, there is a real passion that comes with Pokemon. It’s something I can feel proud of, not like how many fish I’ve caught, or how many tomatoes I’ve planted (although I am proud of that stuff too). Simply put, a desire to be the greatest. To be a Pokemon Master. The slogan is “Gotta catch ’em all!” not “Gotta catch most of ’em!” A nerd lives and dies by the Pokemon team he raises. I didn’t hide a Gameboy in my backpack, and risk having it confiscated by a teacher while I battled opponents during lunch just to send out a level 28 Exeggcute. Unacceptable. A team consisted of six Pokemon, always including the one I started the game with (I always go with Grass starter, if you must know). These Pokemon would go on to be a well rounded and unstoppable force I captured, trained, and traveled alongside, and nothing could stop us. Not Team Rocket, nor the Elite Four, or even the most powerful Pokemon in Kanto. I’m not sure if these feelings I have stem from a healthy viewing of the anime alongside the original games, or just my own brain filling in the blanks of another sporadic storyline. What I do know is that in 1996, Satoshi Tajiri and his company Game Freak, alongside Nintendo, combined to release a powerful combination of collecting, trading, and battling that has yet to stop being compelling fifteen years and several portable game systems later. Not even in pinball or toy form.
Luckily (at least in this case), the force of my obsession is tempered by the finding of new things to feel passionately about. So I have since pulled myself from the intoxicating beast that is the Pokemon franchise. At least long enough to write this article. The Pokemon team I trained still remains between the levels of sixty and ninety. There are many an unhatched egg sitting in Amanita’s PC. Not to mention, my Pokedex is far from full, even the regional one has some gaps in it. It may stay that way for a while, but likely not forever. The siren song of Pokemon is always singing seductively in my ear. Hopefully I can maintain my sanity long enough to fight through the deluge of releases over the winter months. Though, depending on the level of content in Pokemon Rumble Blast (which releases October 24th for the 3DS), I may find myself once again enamored by the hundreds of beasts that we call Pokemon. I hope I can get a few more articles written before then.
Well I have hated SnorgTees for a long time. Like many, I ran across their advertisements on myspace, back when myspace was a thing people logged into. Just like the advertisements for auto insurance rates and finding old classmates, I simply ignored the ads and went about stalking people and not returning comments. That was it for many years.
Now we are in the present day, and this year (maybe last year, what kind of person would keep track of this?) Cracked.com began running advertisements by SnorgTees. I don’t blame Cracked, since they can do no wrong, but the ads themselves can cause a great pain in the comedy receptors of my brain.
Four of the five shirts I blindly clicked on at random from their front page, and will be posting my thoughts accordingly. The first one though I have specifically singled out. It is one that specifically appears on the Cracked ads, and is at the very heart of my anger.
I don’t sell shirts. I don’t design shirts. I might not even wear shirts correctly, but I know words. Words are a pretty simple concept, so I won’t go into details about them right now. Just read the shirt out loud. It’s a pun! A pun based on something no one brought up. Puns are terrible even in the most called for situations, but bringing one up out of nowhere creates very dangerous particles of antihilarity which scientists claim don’t even exist.
Now, bringing up a time when you thought of a totally good pun, but like, you just had to be there, so you tell your friends, causing them to groan, roll their eyes, and reassess how much your friendship is worth can be time consuming hard work. Wouldn’t it be much simpler to put that pun, along with the definition of the pun, onto a shirt? This way your friends will all know how terrible your sense of humor is, as well as ward off potential future friends who might have otherwise assumed you weren’t funny, rather than knowing that. Now these people have knowledge of your failings. They have learned from you and your shirt, and learning is important. Feel free to stroke your beard while you contemplate the power of knowledge.
Now, the more important part is, how is this new word of any use to any person ever? I think I have said the word elephant less than 5 times this year. One of those times I confused ‘elephant’ with ‘allopath’ creating unnecessary tension between my physician and I. No one talks about elephants. Unless Snorg is looking to corner the market for people who…
A. Work at wildlife preserves in Africa
B. Clean elephant waste at the zoo/circus
C. Train and ride elephants into battle to destroy their enemies
Then this shirt finds itself with a very limited audience. Presumably one in which they feel elephants are relevant on the world stage.
There are several problems here that I do not know whether to pin on the photographer, the model, the shirt, or society at large. The simplest explanation is that it is a dumb shirt, and she can’t hear for different, yet obvious reasons.
Perhaps the photographer thought this was a clever way to convey sound. The words of the shirt transcending the bounds of the fabric and becoming part of our collective reality.
Maybe the model was listening to her favorite band, and they just got to that part in the song that totally reminds her of her boyfriend.
Maybe the shirt is a warning to people that the wearer is legally deaf, and wanted to relay this information to people in the douchiest way possible. I think the designer had a dream, to make even the deaf look like assholes.
Though all this could be some terrible misunderstanding. In my haste to condemn these people, maybe I misunderstood something very important about humanity. The girl in this picture does seem to be satisfied with the high decibels of her epicness, but perhaps it wasn’t always the case. Perhaps this girl has dealt with a lot of folks who have put her down over the years. She was almost ready to give up on herself until she found a path out of her depression. That’s right, the shirt is actually part of a self help program. Whenever someone tells you that you made a poor decision buying that shirt, and that it is just one in an endless series of terrible mistakes you have made since dropping out of college and deciding to be a model, you can simply hum a short tune, and point to your shirt. No one will get you down today, because you are epic, and you can’t even hear them. Oh, and the headphones? The Secret on audiobook.
If joke shirts like the ones above don’t do it for you, well you are still in luck my friend. For folks who don’t have a sense of humor, Snorg has a wide and utterly unfunny line of shirts that are simply references to other things. If there are things, and you like some of the stuff in those things, then why not wear a shirt about some of that stuff in those things that the stuff you like is from? Show off your preference in movie/show/music while also letting people know what useless knowledge you fill your head with. The intricacies of the current economic crisis? Not when I know all the dialogue to Shaun of the Dead!
What is saddest of all is that the market for folks who simply like turtles is now awash in a sea of zombie movie fans. Many of which probably have nothing more than ambivalence for our reptile friends.
I just need to get something out of the way first. Where is this guy? In his parent’s backyard? Was the park not allowing photography that day or was your car broken down again? Why guns? Couldn’t even bother to pretend holding a lightsaber? Moving on…
So, too funny for the reference shirts? Too knowledgeable for the joke shirts? Well one, you aren’t so great. Two, Snorg has got you covered. Combine your know-it-allism of pop culture and your useless science knowledge (because you don’t need to know Newtonian laws of motion to design your new blog) into one shirt. Now both your college classmates and the dude at the comic book store will look up to you in awe, at least before they begin to tell you that the force in star wars is not the same as a physical force, or that the equation for force is usually more complicated than that.
It’s just a dude with a satchel. No worries right? I mean, satchels are lame, and even the word satchel sounds dirty when I say it out loud, but I can’t blame someone for poor fashion sense. Wait a minute though, something seems odd…
What the hell Snorg? It’s like you aren’t even trying anymore, although that would imply you were trying beforehand. This isn’t even a joke, or a reference. It is just a fact. This is just one step above having a tuxedo shirt that says “James Bond wears a tuxedo.” This shirt is a lie wrapped in a confusing mess of pop culture misinterpretations. Did your art team watch Indiana Jones on mute? Is someone in the office still bitter that his SnorgSatchels idea never took off? The several steps this shirt had to take from concept to product are baffling at every step. It’s like a child who draws muscles on his shirt to look tough, except unlike growing muscles, owning a satchel takes nothing more than a trip to the mall and less money than it took to buy this truly stupid shirt.
If a person wanted to be a bit more like Indiana Jones, this is not the direction I would expect them to gravitate towards. It doesn’t take much to look like an archeology teacher. What if you wear this with a real satchel, what kind of chaos would be wrought on the world? I have said satchel so many times that the word has lost all meaning. They didn’t even use an Indiana Jones font on this one. Snorg couldn’t even be bothered to go all the way through with it and have the fake strap reach all the way around the shirt.
If one person has bought this shirt and then actually worn it, then I weep for humanity.
This is a deconstruction of the the post What is wrong with gamers today? written by Thomas Cox (Black_Emperor). Over the next couple paragraphs I aim to do several things. The first section will focus solely on the logical fallacies within his argument and not the position of the argument itself. The second part will focus on the position Black_Emperor takes. And finally the third piece will discuss my position and why I hold it. Now, before starting I know I am taking on what amounts to a rant, and B_E is very possibly not bringing his A-game (I assume he didn’t become the editor in chief of his own site for nothing). I am writing this mostly because I do honestly think that this game should be discussed, rationally and in an adult manner, I don’t believe B_E does this, he attacks the game in a hypocritical and irrational manner, and I hope to point out why I believe that he does so.
To be honest, it would seem silly that anyone would even consider defending Rapelay in any capacity.
This is one of the first sentences and he immediately throws out an ad hominem attack. Calling every person “silly” and deriding people’s thought process from the very start, there are many more insults like this hurled about throughout the post. If B_E really wanted to bolster his position he could have done without the name calling I believe.
This is from one specific commenter in general…
XAMBOL from N4G writes:
“Does playing this game hurt anyone?
Why are rape scenes allowed in movies? Aren’t there plenty of porns with this as the main theme? Why’s this being in a game all of a sudden bad?”
First of all…ARE YOU SERIOUS?! Your main argument is the trite, “Does it hurt anyone,” argument? When is everyone going to learn that this isn’t a valid point, you’re asking an idiotic question.
We have a lot of ad hominem in here in where he calls the argument “trite” but does not explain why that is. He also adds that the question is “idiotic” and of course opens with the scoffing “are you serious?” remark.
No, it won’t physically hurt someone. We all know that, but does this make it right, still? In society today, we should all know that rape is an inexcusable act. Many people are still haunted by their experiences with rapists. It may not hurt them physically, but it sure as hell will do a number on them mentally. Rape isn’t venial in any medium, especially a video game.
I think here B_E throws out a straw man fallacy, changing the argument from “is this game worse than any other rape related material in distribution?” to the much easier to tear apart “Is rape a condonable act?” He continues to tear apart this straw man while leaving the more valid question of “why is this different from rape in any other media” unanswered. I do cede that he gets around to answering this later though.
This then begs the GTA argument, “well GTA allows you to kill innocent bystanders and steal cars.” Which, is true, it allows you to perform these actions. The difference is, killing and stealing cars isn’t necessary to the games. GTA is at it’s core about choice, and you can choose to be a good guy, or a bad guy. The lines are clearly defined. And I don’t know about you, but the first and only time I killed a bystander way back in GTA San Andreas, I actually felt bad!
The “GTA argument” was brought up in comments, but I believe is a poor argument to begin with. It seems B_E chose this argument specifically because it is not a very strong one. B_E does have a point that the GTA and Rapelay games are vastly different in gameplay mechanics. Never playing GTA III and IV myself I can not say that you can or can not go through the game without killing innocent people or doing any illegal acts though. He does continue on to a non sequitur by stating that he felt bad that he hurt someone in GTA, which is irrelevant to the main topic.
In addition, when you steal a car from someone, you can’t actually see it hurting someone. But during rapelay, the victim is actually being raped in front of, and by you. She’s trying to break free, struggling to get away from you.
B_E puts forward the argument that seeing someone graphically raped is worse than if it was as non-graphic as hurting someone in a different game. This is also irrelevant, because the graphics of the act are not in question. This also brings up a few other questions.
“Would GTA be considered more offensive if the death and injury in the games were more graphic?”
“If Rapelay had worse graphics would the game be less offensive?”
On the other side of the coin you can also make the argument that not showing the violence involved in an attack like GTA could make a person believe it is not as harmful as it really is, having the opposite effect that B_E suggests. These questions are also not too relevant to the main topic, but he begs these questions when he uses this argument.
Films and literature usually paint rape as a terrible act. They’re responsible about their portrayal or rape as something negative. But the point of this game is to rape the victim. No choice at all. That’s not a game, that’s a simulator.
“Usually” is the word in the first sentence we need to pay attention to here. What of the movies and films that portray Rape in the same light as the video game? IE a movie that shows rape in the same graphic quality and without consequence as Rapelay does? He does not acknowledge that these types of films, books, etc exist. He uses another straw man by comparing Rapelay to movies that are vastly different in storyline from the game, basically committing his own broken “GTA argument.” He also throws in another fallacy by calling Rapelay a “simulator” instead of a “game.” This is just semantics and is not a valid statement, the game is played the same as other computer hentai games that do not involve rape. B_E also does not remain consistent with calling it a simulator, invalidating this statement even more.
Video games are a very different entertainment setting than films or literature. While these other mediums have fixed views as the nature of their art, video games allow you to be in the experience.
I just do not understand what B_E is getting at with this argument. Is he saying that playing a game can have a more adverse effect than watching a film with very similar material. I searched for material shedding light on the matter that there is a significant difference between behavior after watching TV compared to playing a video game. I found this analysis of several studies by Wai Yen Tang from June 2008. Unfortunately it seems that the most recent studies have been inconclusive, or performed in such a way that the outcome was highly questionable. So, even though it is true that the interaction with the media is different, there is currently no hard data showing that it effects people in a different way.
I certainly don’t want an act like rape sullying this industry’s good name. I’m all for video games exploring gray areas, but rape is as dark as it gets and can’t be considered ethical in any right. If you really cared about…video games, about this industry, you wouldn’t ever condone this. Ever.
This is a question of morality, and as such, can not be stated as fact, but is opinion. One can not decide objectively where all morals should lie and what a person should and should not condone. He continues on to create a false dichotomy in where he basically says, “if you condone this in any way, you are against video games” which is clearly untrue.
It’s gamers like Xam, and the obviously fatuous morons agreeing with him, that hurt our industry. If you want to make this industry a viable recreational avenue, don’t ever let acts like rape defile it.
Once again this is B_E’s opinion and he is entitled to it, but he could have done without another attack on Xam and the “morons agreeing with him.”
From here Black_Emperor updates his main article by pulling some comments from the article to discuss. As of this writing he has updated twice to acknowledge two comments from two different readers, but I do not know if he will do so again. I will only be covering the first update though, for the sake of brevity as well as the fact that the second update is just many reiterations on the points he made earlier in the article.
To be honest, I like this one enough to update the article.
This one’s by Autofire in the comments below:
I have to defend Xam on this one, we are getting into Jack Thompson territory now. what makes rape any different from the murders we commit in games? games are a virtual reality, just because we shoot someone in Uncharted, or FarCry 2 doesn’t mean we are going to go out and shoot someone. same thing with the game at hand. just because we experience it in a virtual reality environment doesn’t mean we are going to do it, there has been rape, murder, ultra violence in movies for decades, look at “A Clockwork Orange” it’s a great movie dealing with the above arguments.
Times are changing, from back 50 years where a man and a woman could not be in the same bed on TV to where we are with blood, gore, severed limbs, sex scenes and drugs.
All fine, well, and good AF. Fact of the matter is, I’ve already addressed most of these issues. You’re right though, we are getting into Jack Thompson territory, and god dammit… that scares me. We’ve finally gotten rid of that madman and the last thing I need is to worry about a new Jack taking up the mantle.
There is a lot to discuss here, first of all I am not sure what is meant by “Jack Thompson territory” as Autofire uses it. I interpreted that to mean that we are getting into a situation where we are becoming like Jack Thompson because some people want to see this game banned much like Jack Thompson wanted the GTA series banned. It is clear though that Black_Emperor interprets it to mean that this game can cause a situation in where a person similar to Jack Thompson will try to ban this game. Since I am confused as to what is meant by this statement i can not refute it in either direction.
B_E continues that he has already addressed the issues Autofire raises such as “what makes rape any different from the murders we commit in games?” I can assume that Black_Emperor is referring to the above area where he took on the “GTA argument” but I believe he did not actually answer this satisfactorily in any previous statements in his article. He dodges the question and continues onto another topic.
Am I the only one who remembers the Mass Effect side-boob incident? Fox News really struck a chord with parents, and I was scared we’d have another Jack Thompson in the woman commentator. It was so bad, the real Jack Thompson was actually defending the industry, and the game! Now imagine if Fox News got their hands on this bit of nonsense! The conservative media would be in an uproar.
The “Mass Effect side-boob incident” is a highly different case in every respect. It was not full on sexual violence such as Rapeplay, and eventually the women who caused the uproar apologized. I believe this incident has nothing to do with Mass Effect and, as some folks brang up in the comments, Manhunt 2’s AO rating controversy, though not perfect, has much more in common with the current Rapelay controversy.
Also, don’t forget, in a lot of these games we get a clear definition of good or evil through story. It’s much the same with films.
B_E once again dodges the question by saying “a lot of these games give a clear definition of good and evil.” But what of the ones that do not give such a distinct line such as Manhunt or GTA, or even the more morally ambiguous war titles.
Let’s look at No Country For Old Men. Now No Country is at it’s base, really just a horror story about a monstrous killer on a rampage. We know what he’s doing is wrong, because the film is being conveyed to us.
It’s the same with a game like Bioshock. You’re the main character, experiencing all of these good acts, and dastardly deeds first hand. In fact, you’re given choices, but the choices are clearly defined: Sacrificing a little girl for power is evil; Saving the little girl is good.
Once again B_E brings up the notion that interactivity is different from passive watching, which I discussed earlier in this article. He also brings up two more statements. 1. That since a movie can do a better job telling us how to feel, that they can more easily make us feel bad about a person being raped. I think this is another straw man though, because what of porn movies that would want us to believe rape is a good thing? In this line of thought that would be dangerous too I believe. 2. He brings up the idea of choice in actions, which he also brought up with GTA earlier. this would of course beg the question, “should a game where you have the choice to rape someone be condoned where a game like Rapelay should not?”
This isn’t a matter of being close minded, it’s a matter of being a decent human being. I voted for gay marriage, women’s rights to abort, and the first black President because I believe in these things, and I like to keep an open mind.
This is just a bunch more non sequiturs, using his views on other unrelated subjects to bolster support in the one he is arguing today, which also sets up another false dichotomy, this time basically saying “If you condone this game being sold then you are also against gay rights, anti-abortion, and racist.”
But there is a point when you just have to look at yourself and say, “You know what? I’m going to say no to the game about victimizing women, and shun it,” because there are more important things in life than proving video games can do anything and go anywhere.
Another non sequitur as I have not seen any comment that says that anyone will be actively purchasing this game. Unless by “shun it” he means actively seek to have it banned in the US, and if that is the case, it is his opinion and can not be argued.
Black-Emperor concludes his argument
So the bottom line is:
Yes, we all know there is nothing we can do about this. Thank you for pointing out the obvious constraints of the industry and humans as a whole. Does that give anyone the grounds to defend it?
As much as I’d like to hear some other uppity moron answer that, I’ll tell you: No.
It’s a horrible act. And as gamers who actually care about this industry, we shouldn’t want this hurting our recently growing reputation. This should have been an open and shut case. But instead a group of simpletons stating obvious arguments in a misguided light, decided to be different, and run into a gentleman’s club swinging, eyes blinded by stupidity. Good job Xambol and crew. Good job.
He ends his article with a value judgement stated as fact, along with many more attacks on his opponents. Not to mention a final false dichotomy where he states that if you care about games at all you must agree with his line of thought.
That is all for part one. I had no idea it would be as long as it has become. I probably should have just listened to Shael Riley’s song Arguing on the Internet, but too late now. Stay tuned for parts 2 and 3 which will hopefully not be so lengthy.